Saturday, July 29, 2006
Anti-Israel criticism.
In addition to my last post about the Israel-Hizballah conflict (press link to go to the other post), I'd like to talk about criticism against Israel and why they are not benefitting any side, not to mention a two-sided solution.
So let's examine the types of criticism Israel as a government and as a people gets:
Neo-Nazi/Anti-Semetic (when I say Anti-Semetic, I mean Anti-Jewish, despite other people being of that same category):
Now, you are probably asking "why address this kind of group in the first place, they are not going to change", but I want introduce you to all types and you can decide what is just, what is democratic, what is inciting, what is damaging, etc...
So, those groups not only do they believe in the destruction of Israel, they also believe in hurting Jews as much as they can.
Examples of their ideologies: denial of the Jewish Holocaust, seeing Jews and other people as sub-human or instead see themselves superior next to the said people, facsism (not democratic, the strong one rules) and a few other anti-Democratic ideologies.
I believe that Anti-Semetism in 19th-20th century in Europe evolved from ignorance, simply people like to hate other people - hatred generates national identity 'us against them'.
However, some more radical Anti-Semetic groups, namely Nazis evolved from desperation, Hitler needed a quick, easy, powerful national identity to make sure things work well, and it worked for him at first.
However, there aren't so many Jews in Europe currently, so Anti-Semetism and Neo-Nazism also naturally became an Anti-Israel ideology, considering that the Nazis actually wanted the Jews out of Europe in the first place, quite ironic.
Radical Anti-Zionism:
There are groups, even Orthodox Jewish among them who claim that the creation of Israel was a mistake for the many reasons (Palestinian problem, can't really have a state for Jews before the Messiah comes, etc...).
Now, being more moderate and at least not openly Anti-Semetic, those groups claim that (despite being impossible) the state of Israel time needs to end.
You probably sense the vagueness of this ideology, as long as Israel exists it will be criticised by that group but also it is impossible to go 60 years back, therefore this ideology does not promote anything but more hatred to Israel which creates racism and discrimination towards Israelis around the world (hence "Boycott Israel", "Jews Against Zionism", etc...).
Also, I find this ideology to be racist because being Israeli is ethnic.
If you think this ideology is just, try to figure how many people you are hurting.
Anti-Israeli occupation/Pro-Palestinian state solution:
Now, this ideology is generally ok; being anti-war and looking for the safety of people is a good thing.
However, some people who share this ideology forget that they are criticising actions rather than intentions; Israel does not intend to gain any benefit from occupying land, it intends to silence terrorism and civilians are being hurt.
After all, the purpose of the Israeli government is to protect its people.
Let's look at it differently, what would your country do if it's being terrorised by a neighbour nation? normally, they'd go on an offensive to silence the source of terrorism, the means are never just because it's war, but the intention is pure and legitimate: guarantee the safety of your people.
To make it simple, the cause of this criticism is terrorism in the first place, Israel is being criticised for going to war, can you suggest any other solution?
Generally speaking, in my opinion, this type of criticism does not help anybody, it may generate a more extreme type of ideology (see below), and it isn't realistic, countries go to war, if you want to criticise war, do it in general, don't criticise Israel.
So if you look for something that can benefit our region, try my diplomatic ideology which is guaranteed to be the best solution and to make the middle east a peaceful place:
1. Israel, Palestine and the Middle East people are victims of all the hatred.
2. Terrorist organizations (i.e. unauthorized, non-democratic, civilian targetting groups) should be criticized and banned.
3. Israel overreaction shall be condemned, NOT Israel itself.
4. Understanding that the people in the region have strong ideologies, some are justified and some are not, the sources of those ideologies shall be condemnded (i.e. propganda, education) and that people should strive to avoid hatred in general; understand your enemy, do not hate it.
Thank you very much for reading, I hope we will all be entitled to diplomacy, and that peace and love will overcome hate (real peace, not on paper).
So let's examine the types of criticism Israel as a government and as a people gets:
Neo-Nazi/Anti-Semetic (when I say Anti-Semetic, I mean Anti-Jewish, despite other people being of that same category):
Now, you are probably asking "why address this kind of group in the first place, they are not going to change", but I want introduce you to all types and you can decide what is just, what is democratic, what is inciting, what is damaging, etc...
So, those groups not only do they believe in the destruction of Israel, they also believe in hurting Jews as much as they can.
Examples of their ideologies: denial of the Jewish Holocaust, seeing Jews and other people as sub-human or instead see themselves superior next to the said people, facsism (not democratic, the strong one rules) and a few other anti-Democratic ideologies.
I believe that Anti-Semetism in 19th-20th century in Europe evolved from ignorance, simply people like to hate other people - hatred generates national identity 'us against them'.
However, some more radical Anti-Semetic groups, namely Nazis evolved from desperation, Hitler needed a quick, easy, powerful national identity to make sure things work well, and it worked for him at first.
However, there aren't so many Jews in Europe currently, so Anti-Semetism and Neo-Nazism also naturally became an Anti-Israel ideology, considering that the Nazis actually wanted the Jews out of Europe in the first place, quite ironic.
Radical Anti-Zionism:
There are groups, even Orthodox Jewish among them who claim that the creation of Israel was a mistake for the many reasons (Palestinian problem, can't really have a state for Jews before the Messiah comes, etc...).
Now, being more moderate and at least not openly Anti-Semetic, those groups claim that (despite being impossible) the state of Israel time needs to end.
You probably sense the vagueness of this ideology, as long as Israel exists it will be criticised by that group but also it is impossible to go 60 years back, therefore this ideology does not promote anything but more hatred to Israel which creates racism and discrimination towards Israelis around the world (hence "Boycott Israel", "Jews Against Zionism", etc...).
Also, I find this ideology to be racist because being Israeli is ethnic.
If you think this ideology is just, try to figure how many people you are hurting.
Anti-Israeli occupation/Pro-Palestinian state solution:
Now, this ideology is generally ok; being anti-war and looking for the safety of people is a good thing.
However, some people who share this ideology forget that they are criticising actions rather than intentions; Israel does not intend to gain any benefit from occupying land, it intends to silence terrorism and civilians are being hurt.
After all, the purpose of the Israeli government is to protect its people.
Let's look at it differently, what would your country do if it's being terrorised by a neighbour nation? normally, they'd go on an offensive to silence the source of terrorism, the means are never just because it's war, but the intention is pure and legitimate: guarantee the safety of your people.
To make it simple, the cause of this criticism is terrorism in the first place, Israel is being criticised for going to war, can you suggest any other solution?
Generally speaking, in my opinion, this type of criticism does not help anybody, it may generate a more extreme type of ideology (see below), and it isn't realistic, countries go to war, if you want to criticise war, do it in general, don't criticise Israel.
So if you look for something that can benefit our region, try my diplomatic ideology which is guaranteed to be the best solution and to make the middle east a peaceful place:
1. Israel, Palestine and the Middle East people are victims of all the hatred.
2. Terrorist organizations (i.e. unauthorized, non-democratic, civilian targetting groups) should be criticized and banned.
3. Israel overreaction shall be condemned, NOT Israel itself.
4. Understanding that the people in the region have strong ideologies, some are justified and some are not, the sources of those ideologies shall be condemnded (i.e. propganda, education) and that people should strive to avoid hatred in general; understand your enemy, do not hate it.
Thank you very much for reading, I hope we will all be entitled to diplomacy, and that peace and love will overcome hate (real peace, not on paper).
# posted by Avihoo Ilan @ 10:44 PM 
Comments:
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I wouldn't say so much that the national identity of Nazi germany was about jews but about the superior race and from this other groups were deemed inferior. Jews, Gypsies, etc. I think there is a natural tendency to dislike nomadic or diasporic peoples because in a sense they are homeless. But you are right in that the nazis won in so far as you did get the hell out and I'm sure that gave some people some measure of happiness after we kicked their ass.
With regards to Anti-Zionism, it's not a racial thing at all. It can be used underneath a larger umbrella of anti-semetism but that's not a given. However for the most part it is one of the criticisms you prescribe. It is a criticism of an action (not an intent) and sadly that action is the genesis of Israel. It's not about hating Israelis but believing strongly that plopping your ass down and setting up shop in the middle of someone else's preexisting living room and then whipping out your military and using law and morality and self defense to justify yourself is wrong and that simply cannot be changed.
The ideology promotes a true feeling which can inspire an anti-Israel sentiment but if nothing else it's because for all the Israeli-martyrdom Israel still refuses to admit that it has commited and benefitted from an international and historic fuck up. Other people can see that there was a tragic mistake and Israel keeps pushing this self-centric "we love us, fuck you all" mentality like they're the center of the universe and the only people on the planet that ever get fucked with. It's not that you got caught up in a mistake that people don't like it's that you know it and don't give a shit. Don't get me wrong, this is more a general jewish trait than an Israeli specific thing - everyone else suffers from racism, the jews they're victims of antisemetism. But your article demonstrates that mentality "Anti-Semetism and Neo-Nazism also naturally became an Anti-Israel ideology". Bullshit, there are over 5 million jews in America and they still feel anti-semetism. But they're not important compared to Israel right? And if they are different from you maybe they aren't really jews?
As for how many people we are hurting - do you mean hurting their feelings? Maybe you mean reenforcing the idea that the palestinians have something about which to be pissed? So we should be silent and hopefully they'll just lay down and quietly take it up the ass from you. Sounds like you're forbidding us to teach slaves to read, now.
"facsism (not democratic, the strong one rules) and a few other anti-Democratic ideologies"
Lastly, all of this democracy praising is getting a little tiresome. Democracy isn't the one true God endorsed way of life. Democracy is good and great and most of us love it but it doesn't mean that anything else is dog-shit on a bun. Just trading one tyrant 3,000 miles away for 3,000 tyrants one-mile away.
I think that at this point I should mention that I'm not anti-semetic. I have no more problem with jews anymore than thinking the holocaust, african slavery, or the indian american genocide were bad makes me anti-white-people-in-general. I have jewish friends or rather friends who are jewish and though I wasn't really taking note somewhere out there I probably have enemies who are jewish. I don't advocate killing civilians on either side of the border. I think the whole situation is a big mess with no clear solution but that doesn't mean I'm blind. As an American I feel that holding wars based on the religious and ethnic backgrounds of the inhabitants of an area is a really immature and wasteful reason to kill and I don't blame Israel entirely for that. I'd rather see a united thriving, multicultural nation progressing forward economically and technology rather than this abomination of a conflict. Does that make me anti-Israel? not at all, I'm equally dissatisfied with just about everyone.
With regards to Anti-Zionism, it's not a racial thing at all. It can be used underneath a larger umbrella of anti-semetism but that's not a given. However for the most part it is one of the criticisms you prescribe. It is a criticism of an action (not an intent) and sadly that action is the genesis of Israel. It's not about hating Israelis but believing strongly that plopping your ass down and setting up shop in the middle of someone else's preexisting living room and then whipping out your military and using law and morality and self defense to justify yourself is wrong and that simply cannot be changed.
The ideology promotes a true feeling which can inspire an anti-Israel sentiment but if nothing else it's because for all the Israeli-martyrdom Israel still refuses to admit that it has commited and benefitted from an international and historic fuck up. Other people can see that there was a tragic mistake and Israel keeps pushing this self-centric "we love us, fuck you all" mentality like they're the center of the universe and the only people on the planet that ever get fucked with. It's not that you got caught up in a mistake that people don't like it's that you know it and don't give a shit. Don't get me wrong, this is more a general jewish trait than an Israeli specific thing - everyone else suffers from racism, the jews they're victims of antisemetism. But your article demonstrates that mentality "Anti-Semetism and Neo-Nazism also naturally became an Anti-Israel ideology". Bullshit, there are over 5 million jews in America and they still feel anti-semetism. But they're not important compared to Israel right? And if they are different from you maybe they aren't really jews?
As for how many people we are hurting - do you mean hurting their feelings? Maybe you mean reenforcing the idea that the palestinians have something about which to be pissed? So we should be silent and hopefully they'll just lay down and quietly take it up the ass from you. Sounds like you're forbidding us to teach slaves to read, now.
"facsism (not democratic, the strong one rules) and a few other anti-Democratic ideologies"
Lastly, all of this democracy praising is getting a little tiresome. Democracy isn't the one true God endorsed way of life. Democracy is good and great and most of us love it but it doesn't mean that anything else is dog-shit on a bun. Just trading one tyrant 3,000 miles away for 3,000 tyrants one-mile away.
I think that at this point I should mention that I'm not anti-semetic. I have no more problem with jews anymore than thinking the holocaust, african slavery, or the indian american genocide were bad makes me anti-white-people-in-general. I have jewish friends or rather friends who are jewish and though I wasn't really taking note somewhere out there I probably have enemies who are jewish. I don't advocate killing civilians on either side of the border. I think the whole situation is a big mess with no clear solution but that doesn't mean I'm blind. As an American I feel that holding wars based on the religious and ethnic backgrounds of the inhabitants of an area is a really immature and wasteful reason to kill and I don't blame Israel entirely for that. I'd rather see a united thriving, multicultural nation progressing forward economically and technology rather than this abomination of a conflict. Does that make me anti-Israel? not at all, I'm equally dissatisfied with just about everyone.
# posted by 
: 10:05 PM
: 10:05 PM
A) I am not saying that modern anti-semetism is only anti-Israel, I am saying that anti-semetism naturally evolves to being anti-Israeli.
In addition I do not see any way to deal with anti-semetism.
B) I don't think that Israel is the only nation that is being "fucked" with, but as an Israeli citizen it is not my job to speak out for anybody else.
C) I said "think about how many people you are hurting", and no, I am not talking about feelings, I am talking about racism against Israelis; I was just recently got banned from a few IRC channels just for being Israeli.
I have only one thing to tell those people: if you feel you are politically correct by supporting the innocent and therefore ban Israelis, then you are not doing your job right, you are just banning other innocent people yourself.
D) The foundation of the Jewish state is not a mistake; you have to remember that it occured because of anti-semetism itself, and so far it's doing its job.
E) Democracy is the best system, and I am tired of people who think otherwise, the only reason people can say that "democracy sucks" is because they have their freedom of speech which evolves from democracy.
Have a nice day.
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In addition I do not see any way to deal with anti-semetism.
B) I don't think that Israel is the only nation that is being "fucked" with, but as an Israeli citizen it is not my job to speak out for anybody else.
C) I said "think about how many people you are hurting", and no, I am not talking about feelings, I am talking about racism against Israelis; I was just recently got banned from a few IRC channels just for being Israeli.
I have only one thing to tell those people: if you feel you are politically correct by supporting the innocent and therefore ban Israelis, then you are not doing your job right, you are just banning other innocent people yourself.
D) The foundation of the Jewish state is not a mistake; you have to remember that it occured because of anti-semetism itself, and so far it's doing its job.
E) Democracy is the best system, and I am tired of people who think otherwise, the only reason people can say that "democracy sucks" is because they have their freedom of speech which evolves from democracy.
Have a nice day.
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